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 Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz

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jag420g
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:47 pm

Sorry Alan,
Not as elaborate as that I'm afraid. Keep trying, you will kick yourself when it is revealed.

Cheers
Charles smoker
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:41 pm

Just a random thought is it the 420G - 5673 Built

Come on England we need a point Exclamation Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:31 pm

Nah. But I like the way you think TC

Cheers
Charles Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:05 am

No one else having a stab Exclamation

Come out guys have a guess.... Its FREE lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:04 pm

Shame on all you Mk10 readers for not having a go...... Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:16 am

The answer to last months quiz:
The MK10 "B" is of course the the MK10 Limo of which 42 were built in both Mk10 and 420G versions. The main variation was the sound proofed division between front and rear seat which incorporated a sliding glass partition.
Believe it or not, no two MK10 "B"s were the same as they were made to specific requirements and as such other optional extras were available such as cocktail cabinets, reading lamps, magazine racks, radio etc.

Cheers for now

Charles smoker
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Thu May 05, 2011 6:28 pm

New Question:

Which car did Sir William Lyons hope might return Jaguar to Le Mans in the mid 1960's with a genuine chance of outright victory and which some may claim was the most beautiful ever created?

Charles smoker
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Fri May 06, 2011 4:41 am

jag420g wrote:
New Question:

Which car did Sir William Lyons hope might return Jaguar to Le Mans in the mid 1960's with a genuine chance of outright victory and which some may claim was the most beautiful ever created?

Charles smoker

At LAST!! SIX hours ago, I said the XJ-13! Whew!! Hpe there's some Moet for this one...Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Fri May 06, 2011 7:54 am

Congratulations Wiggles, you are correct! cheers
Now on the same theme, you would be aware that the engine used in the XJ13 was the prototype quad cam V12 race engine tested in the MK10 with a little de-tuning for the possibility of road use.
New question is: How many prototypes were actually built and how many of those were stolen from Jaguar in the late 70's when it was owned by British Leyland??????

Charles smoker
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Fri May 06, 2011 8:44 am

jag420g wrote:
Congratulations Wiggles, you are correct! cheers
Now on the same theme, you would be aware that the engine used in the XJ13 was the prototype quad cam V12 race engine tested in the MK10 with a little de-tuning for the possibility of road use.
New question is: How many prototypes were actually built and how many of those were stolen from Jaguar in the late 70's when it was owned by British Leyland??????

Charles smoker

Of the Mk10, or the XJ-13? there was only one XJ13, so if the Mk10, not ure!
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Fri May 06, 2011 10:38 pm

My apologies Wiggles, try this.New question is: How many prototype quad cam V12 race engines were actually built for the XJ13 and other purposes as outlined above and how many of those were stolen from Jaguar in the late 70's when it was owned by British Leyland??????

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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Sat May 07, 2011 5:51 am

Hi - I have to declare an interest ... I own the ONLY quad-cam V12 that was fitted to Mk10 mules. It is the second engine built (out of a total of six) and is being rebuilt as we speak as part of my XJ13 project. Check out Jaguar XJ13 - Building the Legend to see pics

OK ... to answer your question(s)...

Six engines were assembled out of a planned ten.

You can find a detailed account of what happened to all the engines at Jaguar XJ13 - Building the Legend but, in summary ....

The first engine was assembled in July 1964 (Number 1) and installed in the XJ13 in April 1966. It remains with the XJ13.

My engine (Number 2) was assembled in Dec 1964 and installed in the first of two Mk10s in April 1965. It was meant to go in the XJ13 but the car wasn't ready. It ran in the Mk10 for almost 7 months (using Lucas mechanical FI and not SUs). The engine was later fitted with SUs and installed in the second Mk10 in March 1966. After its testing duties in the Mk10s it was returned to the test bed where it achieved the ultimate 502 bhp at 7500rpm (this power was never achieved by engines installed in the XJ13 - the best the XJ13 achieved was 438bhp). The engine was removed from the test bed in December 1969 and survived as a complete engine right up until today. It was displayed by Jaguar in Coventry and then Germany. It was sold to a private individual by Jaguar (Germany) 30 years ago (I have the original invoice) and I subsequently acquired it from him.

Engine number 3 was assembled in early 1965 (I don't have my notes with me as I write this and can't remember the month!) and was never fitted to a car - it only ran on the test bed. This engine was completely dismanted and the block didn't survive.

Engine number 4 was built using a cast iron block which was probably smashed and hasn't survived.

Engines 5, 6 & 7 were combined into a single engine and kept as a spare for the XJ13 (known as number 7). It was first installed in the XJ13 in May 1967 after its engine was over-revved.

Engine number 8 was the only true "full-competiton-spec" engine. It was never fitted to a car and only ran on the test bed for a short while before it was dismantled. The block from this engine found its way into a XJ13 replica built by Bryan Wingfield for the collector Walter Hill. The car survives and is now in the UK.

No more V12 engines were built although some spare blocks were converted to V8s for testing. One of these was dressed up to look like a V12 and may still survive as an empty shell.

None of the three that survived as complete engines were ever "stolen" - two remain with Jaguar and I have the third. A collection of left-over parts were "acquired" by Bryan Wingfield for his replica.

Do I get the cigar?



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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Sat May 07, 2011 9:43 am

Nev, Thank you so much for that fabulous and informative insight. In essence that is the sort of response that the classic quiz hopes to invoke, so the likes of yourself and perhaps Ron McGrice amongst others prove the wealth of information and experience amongst our members, and that of course just reinforces that this forum stands a cut above.
Now for my part, I pride myself on the knowledge that I have acquired over the years on the Zenith project cars and really Just some tid bits that I have learned on the XJ13 during the course of those many years. In this instance I was after the number 6 which you answered correctly.
I would like to take this opportunity to offer up a little information for your verification. It is my understanding that out of the six prototype quad cams built, that at least 2 of those were stolen from jaguar in the late 70's and another was destroyed during a demonstration run at Silverstone in 1978. Now I believe there was a display unit at Brown Lane at the time, apparently this and parts from the Silverstone engine were combined to keep the XJ13 going.
I remember that back in the 90's Nigel Thorley visited Whitley Engineering with a former employee and whilst unearthing part of the plant they found a pallet containing an engine in bits. He went on to say that upon closer inspection they were amazed that what they were looking at was in fact an XJ13 engine"
It was handed over to the JDHT, I do not know what they did with it, perhaps they kept it as a replacement for the XJ13 in case needed or as a display unit. In any event the XJ13's original engine has been fully overhauled/rebuilt, a far cry from when it visited Australia in 1987 for the Australian Grand Prix in very poor condition.
Having said all that, it is my honour and privilege to award you the coverted cigar smoker
Yes Nev you get the cigar! Thanks again your input is very much appreciated!

Charles smoker
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Sat May 07, 2011 7:23 pm

Hi Charles

There were only ever two engines installed in the XJ13 - Number 1 and Number 7. Both of these engines (or, at least, their surviving parts) remain with the XJ13. In 1978 the currently-installed No.7 engine was over-revved and replaced with No.1 (I have a copy of the actual XJ13 Log Book as well as test logs which confirm this fact). The damaged engine wasn't completely destroyed and was retained.

Interestingly (or interesting if you happen to be a XJ13-nerd like me Embarassed ), the replacement engine in 1978 (No.1) had been fitted with gear-driven cams while out of the car. So 1978 was the very first time the car ran with gear-driven cams - well after the project had ceased. The engine that was in the car at the time (No.7) always had chain-driven cams. So it is a fact that the XJ13 never ran with gear-driven cams for the life of the project.

It is not true that "two engines were stolen from Jaguar in the late 70's". This rumour may have been associated with the fact that Bryan Wingfield later "acquired" the remaining stock of spare parts. Included in this haul were two blocks - one was number 8 (which is currently in the Walter Hill replica in the UK) and the second had been internally modified to run as a V8. This latter engine was displayed by Walter Hill in his collection. The whereabouts of this particular "V8" engine are unknown. Thievery was rife at Jaguar throughout the 70's - this even extended to employees stealing petrol from the test beds which one day resulted in a small fire! However, it is not true to say that two XJ13 engines were stolen from Jaguar in the late 70's.

By the way, all the above facts will be published in the forthcoming XJ13 book by Peter Wilson who worked in the Competition Department at the time of the XJ13 and actually had hands-on experience of building the car. His book will be out later in the year and will be published by Paul Skilleter books. So much misinformation has been published about the XJ13 it will be good to see some real facts for once.

My own engine (Number 2) was the very first Jaguar V12 engine ever to run in a car - albeit in one of the XJ5 project Mk10s. The two Mk10s used for the XJ5 project were XJ5/4 and XJ5/5. I have details of the two cars as well as copies of their Log Books. By cross-referencing the various entries in these Log Books with the detailed engine test logs it has been possible to build up a detailed history of the use of my engine in these cars. One car was sable-coloured (automatic) and the second was white (manual). I am still researching the fate of these cars. They would make suitable tow-cars for my XJ13 racer! I used to own a 420G and became very attached to these wonderful cars and hope to find time to own one again one day.

I do hope to race my completed car and was heartened the other day to discover that Jaguar made provisional entries for THREE XJ13 cars for the 1966 Le Mans - perhaps I will be lucky enough to carry on where they left off one day Very Happy

As far as the "Display Engine" is concerned ... after my engine was removed from the test-bed in December 1969 it was polished up externally and displayed at the Herbert Art Gallery in Coventry (which later became the Coventry Motor Museum). Most of the pictures you will find in various books show this display engine (with SUs). Internally, the engine was untouched (you can see pictures of its recent stripdown on my blog www.xj13.eu). This was around 1972/73. It was later transported to the new Jaguar (Germany) company where it was displayed. When Jaguar lost interest in the engine as a display unit it was legitimately sold to a private individual. This individual later displayed the untouched engine at the Essen Motor Show in 1998 (it is well-documented) and so Jaguar were aware of the existence of the engine at the time but made no attempts to buy it back. In 2010 I bought the engine and it is now in my possession. Jaguar Heritage were very interested in the engine and were very helpful in allowing me comprehensive access to their archives so I could research its history - which I continue to do.

The engine that Nigel Thornley may have found in the 90s was the spare engine - either No1 or No7 depending on which was installed in the car at the time. He should not have been surprised to find it as it has always been known that two engines remained with the XJ13 - although I am not surprised that the "former employee" may not have known about it as I have found that Jaguar employees can be remarkably ill-informed about their own history!

Ok - I should stop rambling on ......

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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Sat May 07, 2011 7:46 pm

No not at all Nev, all this is wonderful, insightful and down right interesting I am so pleased that you clarified so much not only for my self but for all our members. The intrigue of motor cars certainly comes from unknown facts, so I for one feel all the more enriched as a result of what you have imparted.
What an interesting endeavor you have embarked on, I wish you well and hope you will continue to keep us in the loop great


Charles smoker
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Sun May 08, 2011 2:53 am

Thanks for your kind comments Charles.

As I said earlier I still have a soft spot for the big saloons and hope to own another myself one day. My current projects keep me far too busy to actively go out and look for a Mk10 or 420G (although I still made time today to watch Mark Weber get a second place in qualifying - just behind "the German". I hope he finishes ahead of the German tommorrow in company with Button and Hamilton .... Jaguar's latest tie-up with Williams makes me wonder if they will ever plan a return to F1?).

Do you, or any others on this forum, have any recollections/stories of the Mk10s being tested on the road - complete with the V12? I am told they were regularly driven on the M1 past Newport Pagnell to scare the Aston Martins also being tested at the time Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Sun May 08, 2011 11:38 pm

Lets try this question next:
Who regularly raced a mk10 and what was the reg number ?


Charles smoker
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Thu May 26, 2011 2:45 am

Nev,

Dont you fancy hazarding a guess, being a racer Wink


Clive
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1970 4.2 420G -13th from last RHD -Ronnie
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Fri May 27, 2011 12:46 am

Haven't the foggiest I am afraid Embarassed

However - I would be interested in the answer to this one ....
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Fri May 27, 2011 7:15 am

Charles,

I think they have had long enough.....

Maybe time to throw out the answer and try them on another Question


Clive
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1970 4.2 420G -13th from last RHD -Ronnie
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Fri May 27, 2011 9:41 am

Roger wilkinson, 175 BRU Smile


where is the car now anyone know ? Question


Charles smoker
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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Fri May 27, 2011 7:02 pm

jag420g wrote:
Roger wilkinson, 175 BRU Smile


where is the car now anyone know ? Question


Charles smoker

Er... A "Bangers race" in the UK? Laughing Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Sat May 28, 2011 2:14 am

Charles, do we have another question Question


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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Sun May 29, 2011 8:13 pm

Why Charles is sorting out his new ISP.

I will post a new question in his absence:

Well a multiple part question.

What was the name of the test driver who tested the XK120 which was meant to have a top speed of 120mph Question

What speed was achieved Question Then with a visor was added it achieved a different speed what were the two speeds Question

Cheers


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PostSubject: Re: Duane's Classic Jaguar Quiz   Mon May 30, 2011 8:54 am

That man was Norman Dewis.

The only one I know of is 173 mph, sitting on the floor with a funnel in the spot where the drivers side head light normally goes, forcing air into the twin SU's.

At this time, the "Packard" boys were in the pub celebrating as they did not believe they could be beaten.

Norm Dewis visited Australia several years ago, and told us that story at our Jaguar Club meeting Smile

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